Looks like some of you have gotten "higher education". That makes Jehovah sad... just like plastic toy wizards.
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
JoinedPosts by Billy the Ex-Bethelite
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52
Questions for those that believe in Electricity
by OnTheWayOut inyou can't see electricity or hear it or feel it.
well, there are sparks and lightning bolts and heating elements and the light and heat of filaments.
and somehow, it lights up neon in a tube.
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48
Evidence based folks: what is your stance on GMO's and why?
by cappytan inso, the anti-gmo movement scored another victory today.
chipotle has opted to only use non-gmo food items.. hooray for them.
i'm pretty neutral on the subject, mostly because, other than questionable treatment of farmers, i have seen no evidence to avoid gmo's for health reasons.. basically, my neutrality boils down to the stance that i'll buy non-gmo, so long as the price is reasonable.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
GMO avacado
That's an excellent example baltar. Hass avocados all come from grafts originating from one singular tree. (read the link, if anyone cares) I think the new patent laws would make these delicious things corporate property of whoever "patented" some part of the genetic code. Want to plant that avocado pit and see what grows? Get ready to go to court.
*sigh* Maybe these are the last days.
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22
"Jehovah clearly answered my prayer!"
by stuckinarut2 inso the fade is progressing well.... however, it has been noticed by the 'hounders', who i know will be "following up" with us soon i'm sure.. so i have thought of a way of shutting down the questions etc.... if they ask about things like meeting attendance and field activity, i am going to say something like:.
"oh, thanks for your interest and concern brothers.
this means a lot.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Thoughts??
I'd say that my siblings and I have gotten minimal hounding. I believe that to a great extent, it was because we had already used the stuff I suggested in these threads... which you've probably already read:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/256052/exjw-psychology-104-one-way-play-depression-card
So the elders already have to realize that if they come a knockin' they'd better have answers to the questions I'd previously raised. Abbreviated example...
Them: "Billy, you need to get back to preaching kingdumb troothz!"
Me: "I'm glad you brought that up, do you have a response for my coworker who raised the "kangaroo question", how am I supposed to respond to that?"
Them: "We'll get back to you on that. How about you get back to attending the meetings!"
Me: "I really hate to admit this, but I get so depressed at the meetings. I'll tell you about it, but you probably won't understand. You see, when I go to the meeting and see both of you sitting with each of your families and children, it makes me sad because I was convinced by WT that singleness and not having children was the way to go because armageddon was so close... back in the 1980s. So now I go to the meetings and listen to counsel that I'm supposed to be having a family study. That's just a painful reminder that I made some bad decisions based on some bad advice."
...awkward silence...
Them: "Oh, if you come back to the meetings there are lots of single sisters that are looking for a wonderful husband like you would be!"
Me: "You mean like sister [insert name of a single sister that would make them cringe]. I was an elder long enough to realize that getting married isn't necessarily any key to happiness. While I was in bethel, the seeds of remaining single were planted very deeply and cause me inner turmoil EVERY DAY."
Them: "Well, it's been nice catching up with you. We'd love to see you actively serving Joe Hovah again."
Me: "It's been good talking to you and getting a few of these things off my chest."
They leaving thinking, "You mean there's more stuff like that to get off his chest? We'll just leave this in Joe Hovah's hand."
* Disclaimer: Your results and talking points may vary.
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13
Saw my first JW literature cart
by undercover ini saw a jw literature cart, and two dubs standing behind it this weekend.
they set up at a popular well attended event in a small town that brings thousands of people from around the country.
even though i've been out and away from jws for some time, and no longer identify as one of them, and the people i was with had no clue, it was a bit embarrassing to see the cart and cult zombies with it.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
I saw a couple with a cart on my way home from work today. I only saw them momentarily since they were located at an intersection with a lot of car traffic, but almost no foot traffic. If I didn't already know exactly what it was, my only thought would have been, "why are those two dressed-up people standing out in that gravel lot?" -
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Evidence based folks: what is your stance on GMO's and why?
by cappytan inso, the anti-gmo movement scored another victory today.
chipotle has opted to only use non-gmo food items.. hooray for them.
i'm pretty neutral on the subject, mostly because, other than questionable treatment of farmers, i have seen no evidence to avoid gmo's for health reasons.. basically, my neutrality boils down to the stance that i'll buy non-gmo, so long as the price is reasonable.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
How about rotating crops with nitrogen fixing plants?
It's common where I grew up to rotate corn and soybeans, and some other crops. Not only are soybeans good at fixing nitrogen on residual root nodules, the rotation reduces some pests that can overwinter in the ground. While the soy rotation helps, both crops need phosphorus and potassium, and additional nitrogen helped the corn yield even better. Corn was the cash crop. Soybeans could be hit or miss on profitability, and they had their own pest problems like spider mites, Japanese beetles, and required more herbicides than corn because corn could outgrow many weeds while the beans would more easily lose soil, water, and sunshine to weeds.
Getting back a little bit more toward the GMO topic, and overlapping with the issues of farm chemicals and commercial fertilizers, it isn't a case where farmers are eager to use lots of chemicals and buy lots of GM seed. That stuff is all EXPENSIVE. Fertilizer is expensive. Fuel is expensive. Chemicals are expensive. Seed is expensive. Equipment is expensive to buy/maintain/repair. Land is expensive. To a great extent, the old-fashioned days of family farming is gone. Some have gotten bigger and are profitable. Many struggle. All it takes is one big bad decision and the business is over. Like my grandfather used to say, "If I won a million dollars, I'd farm until it was all gone!"
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48
Evidence based folks: what is your stance on GMO's and why?
by cappytan inso, the anti-gmo movement scored another victory today.
chipotle has opted to only use non-gmo food items.. hooray for them.
i'm pretty neutral on the subject, mostly because, other than questionable treatment of farmers, i have seen no evidence to avoid gmo's for health reasons.. basically, my neutrality boils down to the stance that i'll buy non-gmo, so long as the price is reasonable.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
VI: There are natural alternatives to chemical pesticides such as lady bugs and certain bacteria.
There are some natural alternatives for only some problems. And just because something is "natural" doesn't mean that it's good for you. Aflatoxin naturally occurs in organic fertilizer, is toxic, and goes through the food chain.
And beware that one solution doesn't create a new problem. The native lady bugs that were around when I was a kid were useful in eating aphids, however the ladybugs didn't populate fast enough or find the aphid infestations. Asian ladybugs were introduced to America because they were better at getting the aphids. Unfortunately, in our farm area they are now an invasive pest. They love to come indoors and they stink like something awful. If you have the native ladybugs that don't stink, good for you. I haven't seen one in the wild in years.
That's mostly because organic foods are not mass produced at the same level as non-organic
Perhaps a "mass produced" solution would be for everyone in the city to urinate and defecate in buckets along with collecting their compost, then drive it out to the farms. Frankly, it still wouldn't be enough organic fertilizer. My relatives wouldn't be able to organic farm if they weren't collecting the natural residue from the surrounding non-organic farms.
...but I still don't think these are a sign of the Last Days!But I should clarify, I think we need more alternatives regardless of whether they are labeled "natural" or not. Although we have a better and more diverse diet than our ancestors, I think we rely on too few crops as primary staples. Particularly when native African crops, for example, are ignored in favor of European/American/Asian crops.
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48
Evidence based folks: what is your stance on GMO's and why?
by cappytan inso, the anti-gmo movement scored another victory today.
chipotle has opted to only use non-gmo food items.. hooray for them.
i'm pretty neutral on the subject, mostly because, other than questionable treatment of farmers, i have seen no evidence to avoid gmo's for health reasons.. basically, my neutrality boils down to the stance that i'll buy non-gmo, so long as the price is reasonable.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
I'll try to keep my POV brief. I grew up in an area where "RoundUp ready" soybeans, and Bt-corn.
The good:
- Bt-corn contains a protein that is toxic to insects. Before Bt, if you turned on an outside light out in the country during summertime, swarms of corn borer moths would appear. Using insecticides was expensive and ineffective. After Bt, the same area sees very few of the moths, no insecticide chemicals required. Before anyone panics that this will kill humans, the way it was explained to me, the protein binds in their tiny insect stomachs causing them to starve. I've eaten A LOT of Bt-corn for many years now and I certainly haven't starved.
- "RoundUp ready" soybeans have a gene which allows the plants to be sprayed with RoundUp and not be killed. RoundUp is effective at killing weeds. Before this GMO, farmers would always be experimenting with a variety of herbicides to get the weeds and save the beens. After GMO, RoundUp can be used without killing the crop. While I wouldn't call RoundUp "healthy", I believe I've been around many more toxic herbicides on the farm.
The bad:
- Ah, evolution! Weeds are now beginning to appear that are resistant to RoundUp. So, "RoundUp ready" soybeans will lose their value. For Bt-corn, they also grow non-Bt-corn in an effort to prevent strains of Bt tolerant insects from breeding/evolving. So far, Bt-corn is very effective at keeping borer populations way down.
- Plants have become corporate property. Throughout history, farmers would keep some of their seeds from last years harvest to plant the next year. That became less common when hybridization appeared around the "Green Revolution". Purchased seeds were specially developed to produce better than farmers would get from their own heirloom seeds. Lots and lots of seed companies grew up and improved yields. Still, many farmers would keep soybeans from good yielding areas of the farm to replant next year. But when GMO came along, they were patented. If a farmer bought any GMO seed, he better not replant anything harvested from it, or he'll get sued. That's patent infringement. So rather than corn really being a commodity, you can't just buy some farmer's corn and go plant it in your field. If it's GMO, it's property of a corporation regardless of who buys it. So when companies say "GMO corn is the same as non-GMO corn", that isn't a legal statement. Because of patents, they are NOT the same.
- Similarly, but worthy of it's own paragraph, with the rise of GMOs the selection of seed companies has narrowed down to very few that have the patents or licenses to use the patented genes or specialize in non-GMO. Consequently, those seeds have become much more expensive. While it's considered to be worth the price, I'm not so sure when I hear the yield stats.
Okay, I really tried to keep it brief.
To summarize, I don't have many concerns about GMO safety in the food supply, but I understand those who are concerned and would prefer caution. I'm more concerned about the legal issues and the fact that here in the US in corn country, it's now hard to find good non-GMO seed. As far as labeling in the USA, you might as well conclude that a product contains GMO corn unless otherwise labeled as non-GMO.
Organic is great. I'd encourage anyone to choose that... particularly because I have non-JW relatives in the business. But honestly, the world's population is too large to suggest that everything should be switched to non-GMO and organic. People want cheap food, and organic isn't cheap. When this subject has come up in my conversations with people that don't have any kind of farming background and they start ragging on farmers for using chemicals, etc., I tell them, "So, raise your own food!" Then they look at me with shock and horror. Even still, much of what I eat was harvested by my own hand.
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Do you think you should have the right to decline business on Personal or Religious grounds?
by PokerPlayerPhil inshould individual businesses have the right to pick and chose who they serve?
if a muslim decides he won't bake the cake of a radical zionist that says "reclaim the temple in jerusalem" should the government be allowed to punish the muslim baker?
maybe you can help me understand the issues more clearly because were becoming hyper-sensitive and soon your going to need a handbook what's the proper thing to say.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
I heard the argument of some KKK member going to a bakery run by a Black man, the Black is shocked once he hear's the Klan member want's him to write some evil celebration phrase and declines serving this Klan member.
There are laws against hate speech. This example is bad since a business would never be "required" to do something illegal.
Personally, I had a business and made it a practice to make everyone feel equally welcome... EXCEPT on a singular rare occasion when a jerk of a customer was behaving inappropriately toward my female customers. Otherwise, my customers included clergymen, people of all religions, policemen, people with criminal records and restraining orders against them, and politicians. It was because of a situation where I provided service to a person of one of those categories that I was removed as an elder. So as far as I'm concerned, I found it liberating to serve anyone and everyone who walked through the door. It peeled away much of the prejudice that WT had tried to indoctrinate.
Oh, and I had customers who happened to be gay. I wasn't catering weddings or anything like that. And it's not like I made it a point to ever ask or even be curious. Usually I figured it out when they said they didn't feel welcome over at my competitors.
Personally, I couldn't imagine running my business in such a way that I would turn someone away, even when I was a JW. After all, how would I feel if suddenly I was refused service somewhere because I was a JW. As far as a scriptural example, god makes it rain on everyone, righteous and unrighteous.
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"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth . ."
by nicolaou inso where did god exist before he created the heavens?
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
He floated in the dark, empty void planning the physical creation to come. But no sooner was it created and a naked lady and talking snake derailed the whole thing. -
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
This needs a caption:
"I'm a snow princess and this is my magic book of spells!"
